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| User Info | FLASH: Is "The Bezzle" Going To Come Out? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/864-FL....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 10:32:34
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Alsace Posts: 937 Incept: 2008-10-27 
Bear says: Come Get Some!
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Any hint of real action is positive, but I'll say this: If it turns into a dog-and-pony show, all sizzle and no steak, the effect will be WORSE than if they'd done nothing. They must quit teasing and get on with the good stuff. The model of making noise and placating the masses that has dominated our political landscape for more than 20 years will NOT work this time. ---------- Via ova capitum dura est. Last modified:
2009-03-12 10:37:09 by alsace
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Psamwel Posts: 7 Incept: 2008-02-06 
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is Barney Frank going to prosecute himself?
2009-03-12 10:37:45
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Moniteyes Posts: 2400 Incept: 2008-11-28 ny
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The Banking Queen? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwVWXN0Py.... ----------
2009-03-12 10:40:25
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I know guys, but this is fundamentally about confidence. If this gets any sort of legs at all you will see private capital return. This will not stop the recession and it will not stop the job loss, but it WILL prevent the implosion of our government's funding market over time and it WILL prevent an all-on economic collapse. That private capital HAS TO COME BACK to stabilize things. We can't print around it and we can't make it happen. To entice it to come back, CONFIDENCE MUST BE RESTORED that there is a rule of law. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 10:42:46
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Arkon Posts: 43 Incept: 2009-02-06
Arlington, TX
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Assuming this is a real move in the right direction, I assert that anyone arguing against Barney Frank and his efforts earns themselves at top spot on the list of people to be investigated.
2009-03-12 10:44:12
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Chassa Posts: 896 Incept: 2008-01-09
Scotland
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Having been on the right side of the price during this whole mess will probably be prerequisite for prosecution.
---------- Congratulations [insert your country] Idol (and everyone who watches it), you succeeded in making everything suck. (paraphrased) The Reformed Broker.
2009-03-12 10:45:16
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Baldy Posts: 6555 Incept: 2008-05-16
Pittsburgh
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Didn't FDR go after the "moneychangers?" How did that turn out? I understand Karl's point, and it is a good one, but I am a bit more knee-jerk than he, especially considering the untrue comments Frank made about Fannie & Freddie when he knew they were in danger.
---------- FY2011 Budget - Hist'l Tables (PDF 2.0 MB) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist.pdf 1996-2011 budgets: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html
2009-03-12 10:45:34
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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If this is a real move private capital will FLY into the United States. We're the ONLY place doing it thus far. BEWARE, if you think this rally has been powerful thus far, if this actually gets any sort of traction at all you've seen NOTHING yet. 200DMA may be in play. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 10:45:35
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Crossthread Posts: 1437 Incept: 2007-09-04 Wilmington, NC
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Karl, excuse Me for being redunant here, this ran in our Paper here in NC.(credits NewsandObserver.com). Will they "Follow Though"? Or is this just another circle jerk to "appease" the masses?. Or At least having a glimmer of hope there. As public seethes, prosecutors rally Spurred by rising public anger, federal and state investigators are preparing for a surge of prosecutions of financial fraud. Across the country, attorneys general have already begun indicting dozens of loan processors, mortgage brokers and bank officers. Last week alone, there were guilty pleas in Minnesota, Delaware, North Carolina and Connecticut, and sentences in Florida and Vermont -- all stemming from home loan scams. With the Obama administration focused on stabilizing the banks and restoring confidence in the stock market, it has said little about civil or criminal charges at the federal level. But its proposed budget contains hints that it will add to this weight of litigation, including money for more FBI agents to investigate mortgage fraud and white-collar crime, and a 13 percent raise for the Securities and Exchange Commission. Officials at the Justice Department have not said much in public about their plans. But people who have met with Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. say he is considering a range of strategies. "It's clear that he and other top-level members of the Obama administration want to seize the opportunity to send a message of zero tolerance for mortgage fraud," said Connecticut's attorney general, Richard Blumenthal, who attended a meeting with Holder and a number of state attorneys general last week in Washington. "The only question is when and how they will do it." A Justice Department spokesman, Matthew A. Miller would not comment, other than to write by e-mail, "It will be a top priority of the Justice Department to hold accountable executives who have engaged in fraudulent activities." At the low end of the mortgage transaction ladder, state prosecutors have had a relatively easy time prevailing, but recent history suggests that the government's odds of winning drop when they go after Wall Street executives. Some high-profile convictions have been won in the past decade, but several of the Enron-related prosecutions and some cases brought by Eliot Spitzer when he was New York's attorney general fell apart or were overturned on appeal. As federal authorities decide on a course of action, members of Congress are becoming impatient. Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, announced plans last week for a hearing March 20, inviting Holder, bank regulators and leaders of the SEC to answer questions about their enforcement plans. "Rules don't work if people have no fear of them," Frank, D-Mass., said at a news conference last week. State and local prosecutors, it seems, do not need the nudge. Last week, the district attorney's office in Brooklyn announced the creation of a real estate fraud unit, with 12 employees and a mandate to "address the recent flood of mortgage fraud cases plaguing New Yorkers." In late February, Maryland announced a mortgage fraud task force, bringing together 17 agencies to streamline investigations. With all the state activity and portents of a new resolve at the federal level, lawyers who defend white-collar clients sense growing momentum to perp walk and prosecute executives involved in the mortgage meltdown. "It's going to be open season," says Daniel M. Petrocelli, a defense lawyer whose clients include Jeffrey K. Skilling, the former chief executive of Enron. "You'll see a lot of indictments down the road, and you'll see a lot of prosecutions that rely on vague theories of 'deprivation of honest services.' " While assorted Wall Street executives have been prosecuted over the years, any concerted legal attack on the financial sector would have little precedent. After the Depression, Congress formed what became known as the Pecora Commission, which grilled leading financiers. But the point was mostly to embarrass them, and the upshot was to set the stage for stricter regulations. The most indelible image of the commission's hearings was a photo of J.P. Morgan with a midget who had been plopped in his lap by an opportunistic publicist. Was it crime or greed? The question behind any cases brought against Wall Street will boil down to this: Was the worst economic crisis in decades caused by law-breaking or some terrible, but noncriminal, combination of greed, naivete and blunders? The challenge for the Obama administration will be to prove that it is the former, said Michael F. Buchanan, a partner at Jenner & Block and a former U.S. attorney in New Jersey. "We punish people for intentional misconduct; we don't punish them for stupidity or innocent mistakes," Buchanan said. "If you're a prosecutor, you want evidence that shows real dishonesty. You want something that shows that these people were doing something wrong, and they knew it." That nearly the entire banking industry acted in the same, possibly reckless way could actually help any executive who winds up in court, lawyers said. The herdlike nature of the behavior suggested that bankers were competing for business using assumptions that were widely shared, rather than trying to get away with a crime. And it would be hard to prove that anyone broke the rules, these lawyers said, given that regulations in the riskiest parts of the mortgage industry were so lax. Credits newsandobserver ---------- They all went to look for "America".
2009-03-12 10:46:23
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Guys, if this is real and not just noise it will be a REALLY BIG DEAL. In fact, it could mark 666 as an actual bottom. No, it doesn't end the recession by any means, but it will prevent the collapse of our markets. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 10:48:03
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Hihoherewego Posts: 595 Incept: 2009-02-25
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The Madoff deal and supposed SEC "blindness" to it over the years is where this McCarthy-Lite inquiry should start in earnest and amplification. I would wager that there's a chain of perps hiding inside that nest that goes up and down the congressional ladder.
2009-03-12 10:53:33
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Buck350 Posts: 619 Incept: 2008-10-22
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Hopeful news! Alsace is right: if it's a farce, we could end up much worse off, but hey: this could work, if for no other reason than next election cycle, it will be politically benefical for Congressmen to be seen as righteous protectors of the common good. But it won't be the first time politicians do the right thing for the wrong reasons... The media (and I think the public) want people to blame. That means more than a few telegenic perp walks and houses in the Hamptons seized for conversion to homeless hostels or something. I've been expecting this sort of thing as part of a Perception Management campaign, probably around Tax Time, and as a way to mollify the angry J6Ps when they get their quarterly 101K statements. ---------- I think Paulson and Bernanke knew early on that Wile E. Coyote had already run straight off the cliff, so they chose to focus on frantic efforts to slow his descent before J6P notices the "gravity" of what has happened, hoping that the proles won't panic telegenically on the way down.
2009-03-12 10:54:01
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I don't give a **** WHY they do it, just THAT they do it. It is the only path by which private capital comes back into the market and THAt is the only way we avoid the disaster scenario. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 10:56:01
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Phirang Posts: 8824 Incept: 2008-10-25
bar khoba's revenge
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They'll selectively punish... enough to get capital back in. I bought FRO, NMM, and some SPY calls cuz I KNOW they KNOW. ---------- The Treasury can issue debt on your behalf because the State can and will stomp the wealth out of you and your family.
2009-03-12 10:58:06
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Baldy Posts: 6555 Incept: 2008-05-16
Pittsburgh
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I do not disagree with Karl saying this could change things in the market.
---------- FY2011 Budget - Hist'l Tables (PDF 2.0 MB) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist.pdf 1996-2011 budgets: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html
2009-03-12 11:00:30
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Moniteyes Posts: 2400 Incept: 2008-11-28 ny
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Karl, They are finally listening to you maybe(- but will never admit it). ----------
2009-03-12 11:02:43
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I don't care if they admit it. I ain't doing it for fame - I'm doing it to try to fix it, and if they don't, so there's a record of what they did and didn't do.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-12 11:03:31
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Alanha Posts: 2087 Incept: 2008-12-30
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For there to be real confidence, they have to prosecute top dogs, not small ones off to the side while the top ones continue to roll around in taxpayer money.
2009-03-12 11:25:03
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Nawtybits Posts: 66 Incept: 2008-10-03 Wisconsin
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Could this hearing and "renewed" enforcement cause more problems than cure confidence-wise? I understand the necessity, and I want to see swinging bodies like the rest of you, but the markets would have to deal with suspicion, innuendo, rumor, and the like. "Who's is being investigated?" "Is my bank under indictment?" "Who is honest and who isn't? "Is my money/investment 'safe'?" Those are not confidence-building questions, and a LOT of people will ask them. Investigations and prosecutions may help in the long run, but there is going to be a lot non-coonfident players in the short run. I would think that many of these "organizations" know what the others are up to, who can be "trusted" and whom might swing...wouldn't that insider knowledge have a chilling effect on confidence also?
2009-03-12 11:25:53
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Alsace Posts: 937 Incept: 2008-10-27
Bear says: Come Get Some!
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Alanha +1 and I would add, not letting one guy take the fall when everyone and their dog knows there are many more responsible... **cough** Madoff **cough** ---------- Via ova capitum dura est.
2009-03-12 11:27:08
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Fyoupaulson Posts: 19 Incept: 2008-12-30
Chicago, IL
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Glad to hear they might actually do something. A good question would be, "What the **** too you so long Congress?"
---------- An old Russian proverb, "Dwell on the past, and you will lose an eye. Ignore the past, and you will lose both of them."
2009-03-12 11:27:56
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Raaction Posts: 204 Incept: 2008-02-06
N.W. Arizona
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If the right people from these various departments with power to either move forward or quash these prosecutions are intent on justice there will be nothing to stop it. And even though President Obama has had some missteps recently, in my opinion there are alot of things he is pushing that are in favor of main street instead of Wall street. And untimately he will set the tone for the follow through.
2009-03-12 11:30:48
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Eesmith4 Posts: 395 Incept: 2008-12-31
Missississississippi
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I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably make a bunch of noise about it and the markets will ramp, then it'll turn out to be a dog and pony show and then SPX exceeds crush depth. The most I'd expect is a few scapegoats take the fall and then business as usual for the pigmen. However, I am a cynical, pessimistic bastard, and would LOVE to be wrong. I'll definitely call my reps and push them hard on it. ---------- While at a conference a few weeks back, I spent an interesting evening with a grain of salt. Last modified:
2009-03-12 11:39:22 by eesmith4
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Captbill Posts: 485 Incept: 2008-07-22
Arizona's West Coast
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This strikes me as odd. How many of these criminals are major campaign donors? Does this not expose lots of "other people" in the whole scheme of things? And what of our financial position (U.S. Debt, bank insolvency etc.)? Oh I don't disagree this is a good thing but I don't see how it changes what to some was a Depression to now just a Recession. I have allot to learn I guess. If the markets now start turning upwards based on just this and that we conceivably perhaps saw our lows (666) then this talk of stocking up on canned goods and ammo was indeed moot perhaps? It'll be indeed interesting to watch things from here. Hope everyone's right. Last modified:
2009-03-12 11:39:46 by captbill
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